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Versailles

People who commit suicide are selfish

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While I don’t believe the title ..it hopefully gets some attention and stirs up some feelings. I held off posting a topic like this until after the NYE jollity.

 

Just after Xmas my cousin’s adult son committed suicide. A tragedy that will impact on her family forever. However things went from bad to worse a few days later when his ex-girlfriend also committed suicide leaving behind children that she had with her ex-husband.

 

That got me thinking about why people commit suicide, and what (if anything) can be done to prevent them from doing so ?

 

I have been reading up a bit to try to make some sense of it all.

 

My understanding is that most suicide attempts spring from a deep sense of hoplessness, often coupled with a diagnosis of depression, anxiety or a personality disorder.

 

In talking about it I am going to eliminate those people who have a terminal illness and who decide to end their life early....maybe even war veterans with specific issues related to PTSD.

 

That leaves the balance of the people who do take their own life... some would have had a past history of being abused, a history of self harming, many are vulnerable and emotionally distressed teenagers. Sometimes heavy drug and alcohol use is a factor.

 

I guess there are a few cases of the act being impulsive but many of the attempts seem to be very deliberate and have been calculated for some time.

 

One of the stats I read said that 1 in 25 people who seek hospital care because of self harming behaviour will actually kill themselves within 5 years.

 

Perhaps some on Ziboom will have thought of suicide in their past, as an end to stressful events and emotional pain. Why does one person have the capacity to kill themselves and yet not another. it seems to me it would take a certain amount of courage and resolve to go through with it.

 

I started with a title that contained the word “selfish†and in some ways although I understand that my cousins son was not in any cognitive state to think of that, it is a selfish act. I do feel so sad that he found himself in that position, but I also feel sorrow that every Xmas from now on, will be an awful time for that family.

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I am so sorry to hear that another woman connected with the family has taken her own life.

Yes, in a way you could say they are selfish, as I think most people who kill themselves are in such dire distress that they cannot see the bigger picture at all - all they can be aware of is their own searing pain and distress. Many think they will actually be doing their relatives and friends if they have them, a favour as their self esteem is so low they think it would be better for loved ones if they died.

 

However, the tragedy is that if they waited a bit, things may get a bit better and suicide no longer looks like the only way out. I have had odd days when I have felt suicidal, even in the last handful of years - but a day or two later and things don't look quite as bleak. Plus having had an elder brother take his own life when I was 13, I have seen first hand the terrible legacy inflicted on a family when a member kills themself. When I was suffering severe mental illness in 1999, there were times I wanted to end it, but I wouldn't have, even then, because I didn't want to ruin my children's lives, and it would have done, undoubtedly.

 

Baldrick is a volunteer with the Samaritans who provide a listening ear 24/7 - it is a wonderful organisation - and during my illness, I was on the phone to them most days for about 6 months. I'm sure they do prevent many suicides, although it is a shame that so many callers abuse the service by phoning up just to verbally abuse the volunteers or waste their time.

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I am so sorry to hear that another woman connected with the family has taken her own life.

Yes, in a way you could say they are selfish, as I think most people who kill themselves are in such dire distress that they cannot see the bigger picture at all - all they can be aware of is their own searing pain and distress. Many think they will actually be doing their relatives and friends if they have them, a favour as their self esteem is so low they think it would be better for loved ones if they died.

 

However, the tragedy is that if they waited a bit, things may get a bit better and suicide no longer looks like the only way out. I have had odd days when I have felt suicidal, even in the last handful of years - but a day or two later and things don't look quite as bleak. Plus having had an elder brother take his own life when I was 13, I have seen first hand the terrible legacy inflicted on a family when a member kills themself. When I was suffering severe mental illness in 1999, there were times I wanted to end it, but I wouldn't have, even then, because I didn't want to ruin my children's lives, and it would have done, undoubtedly.

 

Baldrick is a volunteer with the Samaritans who provide a listening ear 24/7 - it is a wonderful organisation - and during my illness, I was on the phone to them most days for about 6 months. I'm sure they do prevent many suicides, although it is a shame that so many callers abuse the service by phoning up just to verbally abuse the volunteers or waste their time.

My cousin is saying at the moment that she does not want to go on living, I can understand why she would feel so drained of any motivation for life, given the current curcumstances.

However despite suggesting that the dialogue remain open, that she perhaps starts a journal to document her thoughts now and that she see her GP - I am at a loss as to what else to say.

I listen though and that is worth a lot to her she says,

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@Versailles, does Australia have an organization like the one @Morrigan mentioned - the Samaritans? Perhaps, you can do a bit of research for organizations that help prevent and/or offer counseling for survivors of those who have taken their own lives. Clearly, your cousin needs professional help ASAP dealing with the trauma of her son's and then, his ex-girlfriend's suicide that closely followed. Perhaps, you can get her started in that direction? I know this tragedy is also very hard on you, so take care not to neglect your own emotional well-being. (((((Hugs)))))
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[quote name='Morrigan' timestamp='1546605159']I am so sorry to hear that another woman connected with the family has taken her own life. Yes, in a way you could say they are selfish, as I think most people who kill themselves are in such dire distress that they cannot see the bigger picture at all - all they can be aware of is their own searing pain and distress. Many think they will actually be doing their relatives and friends if they have them, a favour as their self esteem is so low they think it would be better for loved ones if they died. However, the tragedy is that if they waited a bit, things may get a bit better and suicide no longer looks like the only way out. I have had odd days when I have felt suicidal, even in the last handful of years - but a day or two later and things don't look quite as bleak. Plus having had an elder brother take his own life when I was 13, I have seen first hand the terrible legacy inflicted on a family when a member kills themself. When I was suffering severe mental illness in 1999, there were times I wanted to end it, but I wouldn't have, even then, because I didn't want to ruin my children's lives, and it would have done, undoubtedly. Baldrick is a volunteer with the Samaritans who provide a listening ear 24/7 - it is a wonderful organisation - and during my illness, I was on the phone to them most days for about 6 months. I'm sure they do prevent many suicides, although it is a shame that so many callers abuse the service by phoning up just to verbally abuse the volunteers or waste their time. [/quote] @Versailles - you are providing the most valuable help you can to your cousin at the moment, just by being there for her and listening. Do not be alarmed if she expresses suicidal thoughts herself atm - it does not necessarily mean she is going to do it - it just reveals the extent of her distress and if she is able to articulate this it takes the pressure off her a bit, for a while. She is going to feel awful for ages but hopefully she will push through and when she does, you will have contributed to that.

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I do have a great deal to say on this matter, as suicide is rampant in my family.

 

A quick summary of this history from my lovely grandfather: My uncle Mineo was rebuilding his home, where my grandfather was living. My uncle had 4 other brothers and 1 other sister at the time (excluding my mother, who lives in the US). He asked all his siblings, excluding my mother, to take in my grandfather while the home was being rebuilt. My uncle had to rent a house while the work on his home was being done, and the accommodations were too small to include my grandfather. None of them would do it, although the youngest two were both living in apartments that were way too small to fit a third, very ornery person that drove everyone bonkers. My grandfather was a humongous dick, an unpleasant man who disliked my sister and I from the get-go for being American and Filipino, although he did pay for all the freebies we got in town and apparently bragged about us to his mistresses. So to get back at his children for not letting him stay with them, he decided to hang himself in the bathroom where he could be discovered by my 8-year-old cousin.

 

The psychological damage to my cousin has been monumental. He keeps disappearing, and lost his inheritance to his younger sister because he is wholly unreliable. This was my favorite cousin, but we drifted away once I realized that the most intensive conversations he would ever have in his life was with the television set. He has tried really hard to get better, and there were pockets of time when he reverted back to his sweet self. However, he mostly engages in nefarious activities that require financial rescuing by his mother or younger sister. I think he wronged his younger sister once too often, and is now cut off...which doesn't mean much in my family, except when it comes to my older sister, who is genuinely never welcome again.

 

When I went to Japan for my grandfather's 5-year memorial, my eldest uncle's wife committed suicide because she couldn't pay a pretty paltry debt. Any one of my uncle's would have paid it, but she opted to kill herself. She left behind a 5-year-old daughter, and my eldest uncle wasn't exactly a stable guy. Loved him to death as he was so much fun, but he was also yakuza that was disowned while my grandmother was alive. I tried getting together with my cousin Hiroko whenever I was in Japan, but she ended up living with her mother's relatives after awhile. She managed a lot better because everyone in the family took care of her, not wanting her to end up like my other cousin.

 

Then lets move on to my sister, who attempted suicide to get out of the military. We all told her not to go, but she wouldn't pay attention. This part is something she gets from both my mother and grandfather. She later admitted that she faked the suicide, but this is not an admission she would ever make to my mother. Of course, my mother felt that she was at fault, and she has spent her whole life coddling my sister. She even took her side when my sister's husband threatened to kill me. Let's not forget the time my sister tried to kill me by wrapping a phone cord around my neck. Thank God my boyfriend ran up the stairs to stop her, as my mother was screaming. I realize this makes us sound like hillbillies, but we are what we are.

 

I despise suicide. I'm not sure how much of Japanese culture weighs into suicide, but seppuku was a form of punishment there. This would explain my aunt's situation. My grandfather's situation was in a long line of selfish actions, and I do believe that this is mental illness at play here. Mental illness is not addressed very well in Japan, but people who are mentally ill are pretty well tolerated there, if that makes sense. The nation is wholly eccentric, and the only real crime is being outwardly inconsiderate, being overweight and keeping a messy house. My grandparents were pretty horrible people. There wasn't physical abuse, but they did give away their three eldest children because neither parent wanted to watch the kids. I can connect the dots here and see this in my mother, when it came to me, as well as my sister, when it came to my niece. I can also see it in one uncle, but he has largely been saved by his wife, who recently passed away. I don't get to see another uncle too much as his wife has her own set of crazy going on. It is present in my aunt, and she's had two disastrous marriages to two trainwreck men. There is the eldest uncle who was yakuza, although I think he might the world's greatest storyteller.

 

I have two other uncles who don't have this problem. They are stable, wholly loving and are the reason why the family hasn't fallen apart. One has passed away, and the other took up the mantle. He was also an Eagle scout and is the only one to have a FB page where he butt types single characters on my page. I think they're also the ones who sort of took control once the suicides got out of hand.

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I do have a great deal to say on this matter, as suicide is rampant in my family.

 

A quick summary of this history from my lovely grandfather: My uncle Mineo was rebuilding his home, where my grandfather was living. My uncle had 4 other brothers and 1 other sister at the time (excluding my mother, who lives in the US). He asked all his siblings, excluding my mother, to take in my grandfather while the home was being rebuilt. My uncle had to rent a house while the work on his home was being done, and the accommodations were too small to include my grandfather. None of them would do it, although the youngest two were both living in apartments that were way too small to fit a third, very ornery person that drove everyone bonkers. My grandfather was a humongous dick, an unpleasant man who disliked my sister and I from the get-go for being American and Filipino, although he did pay for all the freebies we got in town and apparently bragged about us to his mistresses. So to get back at his children for not letting him stay with them, he decided to hang himself in the bathroom where he could be discovered by my 8-year-old cousin.

 

The psychological damage to my cousin has been monumental. He keeps disappearing, and lost his inheritance to his younger sister because he is wholly unreliable. This was my favorite cousin, but we drifted away once I realized that the most intensive conversations he would ever have in his life was with the television set. He has tried really hard to get better, and there were pockets of time when he reverted back to his sweet self. However, he mostly engages in nefarious activities that require financial rescuing by his mother or younger sister. I think he wronged his younger sister once too often, and is now cut off...which doesn't mean much in my family, except when it comes to my older sister, who is genuinely never welcome again.

 

When I went to Japan for my grandfather's 5-year memorial, my eldest uncle's wife committed suicide because she couldn't pay a pretty paltry debt. Any one of my uncle's would have paid it, but she opted to kill herself. She left behind a 5-year-old daughter, and my eldest uncle wasn't exactly a stable guy. Loved him to death as he was so much fun, but he was also yakuza that was disowned while my grandmother was alive. I tried getting together with my cousin Hiroko whenever I was in Japan, but she ended up living with her mother's relatives after awhile. She managed a lot better because everyone in the family took care of her, not wanting her to end up like my other cousin.

 

Then lets move on to my sister, who attempted suicide to get out of the military. We all told her not to go, but she wouldn't pay attention. This part is something she gets from both my mother and grandfather. She later admitted that she faked the suicide, but this is not an admission she would ever make to my mother. Of course, my mother felt that she was at fault, and she has spent her whole life coddling my sister. She even took her side when my sister's husband threatened to kill me. Let's not forget the time my sister tried to kill me by wrapping a phone cord around my neck. Thank God my boyfriend ran up the stairs to stop her, as my mother was screaming. I realize this makes us sound like hillbillies, but we are what we are.

 

I despise suicide. I'm not sure how much of Japanese culture weighs into suicide, but seppuku was a form of punishment there. This would explain my aunt's situation. My grandfather's situation was in a long line of selfish actions, and I do believe that this is mental illness at play here. Mental illness is not addressed very well in Japan, but people who are mentally ill are pretty well tolerated there, if that makes sense. The nation is wholly eccentric, and the only real crime is being outwardly inconsiderate, being overweight and keeping a messy house. My grandparents were pretty horrible people. There wasn't physical abuse, but they did give away their three eldest children because neither parent wanted to watch the kids. I can connect the dots here and see this in my mother, when it came to me, as well as my sister, when it came to my niece. I can also see it in one uncle, but he has largely been saved by his wife, who recently passed away. I don't get to see another uncle too much as his wife has her own set of crazy going on. It is present in my aunt, and she's had two disastrous marriages to two trainwreck men. There is the eldest uncle who was yakuza, although I think he might the world's greatest storyteller.

 

I have two other uncles who don't have this problem. They are stable, wholly loving and are the reason why the family hasn't fallen apart. One has passed away, and the other took up the mantle. He was also an Eagle scout and is the only one to have a FB page where he butt types single characters on my page. I think they're also the ones who sort of took control once the suicides got out of hand.

WOW @Anna!! Just WOW!!

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I do have a great deal to say on this matter, as suicide is rampant in my family.

 

A quick summary of this history from my lovely grandfather: My uncle Mineo was rebuilding his home, where my grandfather was living. My uncle had 4 other brothers and 1 other sister at the time (excluding my mother, who lives in the US). He asked all his siblings, excluding my mother, to take in my grandfather while the home was being rebuilt. My uncle had to rent a house while the work on his home was being done, and the accommodations were too small to include my grandfather. None of them would do it, although the youngest two were both living in apartments that were way too small to fit a third, very ornery person that drove everyone bonkers. My grandfather was a humongous dick, an unpleasant man who disliked my sister and I from the get-go for being American and Filipino, although he did pay for all the freebies we got in town and apparently bragged about us to his mistresses. So to get back at his children for not letting him stay with them, he decided to hang himself in the bathroom where he could be discovered by my 8-year-old cousin.

 

The psychological damage to my cousin has been monumental. He keeps disappearing, and lost his inheritance to his younger sister because he is wholly unreliable. This was my favorite cousin, but we drifted away once I realized that the most intensive conversations he would ever have in his life was with the television set. He has tried really hard to get better, and there were pockets of time when he reverted back to his sweet self. However, he mostly engages in nefarious activities that require financial rescuing by his mother or younger sister. I think he wronged his younger sister once too often, and is now cut off...which doesn't mean much in my family, except when it comes to my older sister, who is genuinely never welcome again.

 

When I went to Japan for my grandfather's 5-year memorial, my eldest uncle's wife committed suicide because she couldn't pay a pretty paltry debt. Any one of my uncle's would have paid it, but she opted to kill herself. She left behind a 5-year-old daughter, and my eldest uncle wasn't exactly a stable guy. Loved him to death as he was so much fun, but he was also yakuza that was disowned while my grandmother was alive. I tried getting together with my cousin Hiroko whenever I was in Japan, but she ended up living with her mother's relatives after awhile. She managed a lot better because everyone in the family took care of her, not wanting her to end up like my other cousin.

 

Then lets move on to my sister, who attempted suicide to get out of the military. We all told her not to go, but she wouldn't pay attention. This part is something she gets from both my mother and grandfather. She later admitted that she faked the suicide, but this is not an admission she would ever make to my mother. Of course, my mother felt that she was at fault, and she has spent her whole life coddling my sister. She even took her side when my sister's husband threatened to kill me. Let's not forget the time my sister tried to kill me by wrapping a phone cord around my neck. Thank God my boyfriend ran up the stairs to stop her, as my mother was screaming. I realize this makes us sound like hillbillies, but we are what we are.

 

I despise suicide. I'm not sure how much of Japanese culture weighs into suicide, but seppuku was a form of punishment there. This would explain my aunt's situation. My grandfather's situation was in a long line of selfish actions, and I do believe that this is mental illness at play here. Mental illness is not addressed very well in Japan, but people who are mentally ill are pretty well tolerated there, if that makes sense. The nation is wholly eccentric, and the only real crime is being outwardly inconsiderate, being overweight and keeping a messy house. My grandparents were pretty horrible people. There wasn't physical abuse, but they did give away their three eldest children because neither parent wanted to watch the kids. I can connect the dots here and see this in my mother, when it came to me, as well as my sister, when it came to my niece. I can also see it in one uncle, but he has largely been saved by his wife, who recently passed away. I don't get to see another uncle too much as his wife has her own set of crazy going on. It is present in my aunt, and she's had two disastrous marriages to two trainwreck men. There is the eldest uncle who was yakuza, although I think he might the world's greatest storyteller.

 

I have two other uncles who don't have this problem. They are stable, wholly loving and are the reason why the family hasn't fallen apart. One has passed away, and the other took up the mantle. He was also an Eagle scout and is the only one to have a FB page where he butt types single characters on my page. I think they're also the ones who sort of took control once the suicides got out of hand.

OMG that is some history to untangle. I hear what you are saying about different cultures understanding of suicide. There may even be a genetic predisposition in some countries or families.

 

My mother always said her family on the paternal Irish side were “prone to melancholyâ€, the men in particular were silent and brooding. This cousin is descended from this line of the family.

 

Perhaps even living in a cold, grey climate like Norway or Russia, without enough sunshine at certain times of the year could see a spike in suicide rates.

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[quote name='Sandy' timestamp='1546613405']@Versailles, does Australia have an organization like the one @Morrigan mentioned - the Samaritans? Perhaps, you can do a bit of research for organizations that help prevent and/or offer counseling for survivors of those who have taken their own lives. Clearly, your cousin needs professional help ASAP dealing with the trauma of her son's and then, his ex-girlfriend's suicide that closely followed. Perhaps, you can get her started in that direction? I know this tragedy is also very hard on you, so take care not to neglect your own emotional well-being. (((((Hugs)))))[/quote] Yes Sandy I have been googling mental health services in her area but hoping that a good GO would be proactive in suggesting she access their services. I am not even sure that the stretched NHS in the Uk would have such a service that would encompass the relatives of a family member who has taken their life. Hopefully NGO will take on that counselling role.

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I do have a great deal to say on this matter, as suicide is rampant in my family.

 

A quick summary of this history from my lovely grandfather: My uncle Mineo was rebuilding his home, where my grandfather was living. My uncle had 4 other brothers and 1 other sister at the time (excluding my mother, who lives in the US). He asked all his siblings, excluding my mother, to take in my grandfather while the home was being rebuilt. My uncle had to rent a house while the work on his home was being done, and the accommodations were too small to include my grandfather. None of them would do it, although the youngest two were both living in apartments that were way too small to fit a third, very ornery person that drove everyone bonkers. My grandfather was a humongous dick, an unpleasant man who disliked my sister and I from the get-go for being American and Filipino, although he did pay for all the freebies we got in town and apparently bragged about us to his mistresses. So to get back at his children for not letting him stay with them, he decided to hang himself in the bathroom where he could be discovered by my 8-year-old cousin.

 

The psychological damage to my cousin has been monumental. He keeps disappearing, and lost his inheritance to his younger sister because he is wholly unreliable. This was my favorite cousin, but we drifted away once I realized that the most intensive conversations he would ever have in his life was with the television set. He has tried really hard to get better, and there were pockets of time when he reverted back to his sweet self. However, he mostly engages in nefarious activities that require financial rescuing by his mother or younger sister. I think he wronged his younger sister once too often, and is now cut off...which doesn't mean much in my family, except when it comes to my older sister, who is genuinely never welcome again.

 

When I went to Japan for my grandfather's 5-year memorial, my eldest uncle's wife committed suicide because she couldn't pay a pretty paltry debt. Any one of my uncle's would have paid it, but she opted to kill herself. She left behind a 5-year-old daughter, and my eldest uncle wasn't exactly a stable guy. Loved him to death as he was so much fun, but he was also yakuza that was disowned while my grandmother was alive. I tried getting together with my cousin Hiroko whenever I was in Japan, but she ended up living with her mother's relatives after awhile. She managed a lot better because everyone in the family took care of her, not wanting her to end up like my other cousin.

 

Then lets move on to my sister, who attempted suicide to get out of the military. We all told her not to go, but she wouldn't pay attention. This part is something she gets from both my mother and grandfather. She later admitted that she faked the suicide, but this is not an admission she would ever make to my mother. Of course, my mother felt that she was at fault, and she has spent her whole life coddling my sister. She even took her side when my sister's husband threatened to kill me. Let's not forget the time my sister tried to kill me by wrapping a phone cord around my neck. Thank God my boyfriend ran up the stairs to stop her, as my mother was screaming. I realize this makes us sound like hillbillies, but we are what we are.

 

I despise suicide. I'm not sure how much of Japanese culture weighs into suicide, but seppuku was a form of punishment there. This would explain my aunt's situation. My grandfather's situation was in a long line of selfish actions, and I do believe that this is mental illness at play here. Mental illness is not addressed very well in Japan, but people who are mentally ill are pretty well tolerated there, if that makes sense. The nation is wholly eccentric, and the only real crime is being outwardly inconsiderate, being overweight and keeping a messy house. My grandparents were pretty horrible people. There wasn't physical abuse, but they did give away their three eldest children because neither parent wanted to watch the kids. I can connect the dots here and see this in my mother, when it came to me, as well as my sister, when it came to my niece. I can also see it in one uncle, but he has largely been saved by his wife, who recently passed away. I don't get to see another uncle too much as his wife has her own set of crazy going on. It is present in my aunt, and she's had two disastrous marriages to two trainwreck men. There is the eldest uncle who was yakuza, although I think he might the world's greatest storyteller.

 

I have two other uncles who don't have this problem. They are stable, wholly loving and are the reason why the family hasn't fallen apart. One has passed away, and the other took up the mantle. He was also an Eagle scout and is the only one to have a FB page where he butt types single characters on my page. I think they're also the ones who sort of took control once the suicides got out of hand.

I think there are predispositions in families.

 

My sister's old roommate, who was also a friend of mine, jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge when she was 30 or 31. Her father also jumped off the Golden Gate Bridge when she was a little girl.I just remember her poor mother's face at the funeral.

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[quote name='Morrigan' timestamp='1546670124']I would suggest that a support group for suicide bereavement might be as much help as counselling, if not more - it is always so helpful to share with others who have gone through similar experiences. I googled and came up with this, in Australia. [url]https://www.lifeline.org.au/get-help/topics/suicide-bereavement[/url][/quote] That is a great suggestion - Thanks @Morrigan but I need a contact for something to suggest that is nearer to where cousin is in Sevenoaks, Kent

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[quote name='Morrigan' timestamp='1546670124']I would suggest that a support group for suicide bereavement might be as much help as counselling, if not more - it is always so helpful to share with others who have gone through similar experiences. I googled and came up with this, in Australia. [url]https://www.lifeline.org.au/get-help/topics/suicide-bereavement[/url][/quote] OK sorry @Versailles - I had assumed that your cousin was in Aus - but here are some sites for UK support [url]https://uksobs.org/[/url] [url]http://supportaftersuicide.org.uk/[/url] There is also Cruse which offers free bereavement counselling [url]https://www.cruse.org.uk/get-help/traumatic-bereavement/suicide[/url]
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I would suggest that a support group for suicide bereavement might be as much help as counselling, if not more - it is always so helpful to share with others who have gone through similar experiences. I googled and came up with this, in Australia. https://www.lifeline.org.au/get-help/topics/suicide-bereavement

I agree - those are great suggestions. I hope @Versaiiles' cousin finds and joins a support group soon!!

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