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eqman

Prince Harry and Meghan Markle

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This is big news in the UK.

 

Harry and Meghan, aka the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, have announced they they are stepping back as senior members of the British Royal Family. 

 

As media outlets pour over the details and apportion blame for what's gone wrong (most of the UK establishment and media are going for 'Meghan wasn't worthy and has messed up everything'), all kinds of angles and stories are appearing. 

 

I'm not a monarchist and will be happy if this speeds up the eventual removal of the royal family, but I did think that having someone of mixed race join the family was a very good thing.

 

Seems that the British establishment didn't agree. But whenever racism raises it's ugly head, people will say that it's nothing to do with race at all. Yeah, right.

 

There a good article on this here...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/11/post-racial-britain-harry-meghan-tabloids

 

 

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I really wasn't aware of the strong racial element until I began seeing it on US Twitter before the wedding, most notably from MAGA folk.   I expect no less from them, ya know?  

 

I was hoping that Ms. Markle would be welcomed, but I did finally look at the post-stepping-back-from-duties comments from people -- many from liberal friends -- who have absolutely NO IDEA just how racist they are. Most notably, the whole universe of racist Yoko Ono dragon lady comparisons, and the common misconception that women of color use some sort of voodoo to captivate their white husbands and make them do things against their will, was in full force.   

 

More importantly, why are the press fixated on badmouthing the couple when Prince Andrew exists in the palace?  Is pedophilia not interesting enough?

 

Americans do not have a royal family, so perhaps we really don't understand the situation.  My family has said so many disparaging things about the current Empress of Japan, who has suffered years from debilitating mental health issues that have prevented her from making public engagements.  In Japan, there is something called "gaman", which means that you are expected to endure anything to complete a task that you do not want to do.  Because of this, I think most Japanese are quite unsympathetic to the Empress.  Perhaps many British people expected a Duchess to endure the racism.  That's a hard thing to do, especially when someone posts a photo of a monkey and says that it is your newborn leaving the hospital.  I've seen many comments suggesting that that the Duchess was a poor sport for not seeing the humor in that "joke".  What a world.

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Great article @eqman !  That story has been all over the news here, too, but without a great deal of speculation about WHY the couple made that decision.  I've also read comments by Piers Morgan, blaming Megan Markle for their exodus from a dedicated royal life.  

 

As someone who cherishes my independence and freedom of choice, I've alway believed that it would be truly terrible to be born into a royal family, whether or not you might realistically become king or queen someday.   In so many ways, you are living in a fishbowl - your life is structured and closely scrutinized.

 

My take is that Harry and Meghan simply want to live their life on their own terms, succeed or fail due to their own efforts and be granted the freedom to do both.  For them, breaking loose from the royal life must feel liberating.  I wish them success and happiness!

 

 

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I would take issue with several things mentioned in the article posted by @eqman in the OP, firstly that Thomas Markle is seen by the majority as a "loveable rogue" disowned by his "heartless daughter".   I am a bit of a royal watcher and I feel that public sympathy was 99% with Meghan for the way her father behaved, and the leaking of her personal letter to the Press was shocking.  

Of course there are always going to be a few racist people trolling someone like Meghan, but I feel the overwhelming majority were very much in her corner, in the beginning, and were so pleased that Harry had finally found some happiness with her, after losing his mother so young and then struggling with only an emotionally illiterate father for support.   I have, since their announcement, seen references in the Press to the fact that she is American and drawn comparisons with Wallace Simpson, but I have never seen anything racist about her in a newspaper. 

 

I think that if the couple are unhappy with their positions in the Royal family, then they should be allowed to "hand in their notice" and live a different life.  But I very much take issue with the way they have done it, excluding the Queen in the planning, and their commercial plans for life, post-Royalty.  We have seen from the experiences of several royals in the recent past, that commercial interests and royalty don't mix well - for instance the Earl and Countess of Wessex in the early 2000s. 

The Sussexes  plans to trade off their royal connections are evident from this article from The World Trademark Review.  Even the name, is trading off the fact that they are royal.  I think this is totally wrong. 

 "As has been widely reported in recent days, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex filed a UK trademark for SUSSEX ROYAL in June 2019, covering six classes and more than 100 goods and services. The move has been seen as a possible indicator of the commercial plans that the couple have for their new Sussex Royal brand, which was announced after the pair left the Royal Foundation charity last summer (the first use of the brand name being the couple’s Instagram account launched in April 2019). One retail expert, for example, told the Daily Mail that use of the SUSSEX ROYAL trademark on products could “generate revenues of £400 million”.
 

 

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9 hours ago, Morrigan said:

 

The Sussexes  plans to trade off their royal connections are evident from this article from The World Trademark Review.  Even the name, is trading off the fact that they are royal.  I think this is totally wrong. 

 "As has been widely reported in recent days, the Duke and Duchess of Sussex filed a UK trademark for SUSSEX ROYAL in June 2019, covering six classes and more than 100 goods and services. The move has been seen as a possible indicator of the commercial plans that the couple have for their new Sussex Royal brand, which was announced after the pair left the Royal Foundation charity last summer (the first use of the brand name being the couple’s Instagram account launched in April 2019). One retail expert, for example, told the Daily Mail that use of the SUSSEX ROYAL trademark on products could “generate revenues of £400 million”.
 

 

 

I believe that Kate Middleton and Duchess Kate are also trademarked.  I also believe that both Princes have their names trademarked.  There isn't anything to this, other than protecting their brand.  Legally, it is imperative that these popular words are trademarked to prevent others from using or profiting off the name, especially since royals do use their likeness for charitable purposes.  The fact that the Daily Mail is making this into an explosive article is pretty disingenuous.

 

I value your opinion, @Morrigan.  Again, we do not have a royal family in the US, so it is harder for us to understand.  

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Re the racism part of this discussion, no-one will ever see an overtly racist article about anyone in a newspaper. Racism doesn't work like that anymore. 

 

In the old days, racism was evident from people marching down the streets with swastika banners, nazi salutes and chanting. The KKK wore white hoods so everyone knew what was going on. In the UK the fascists wore black shirts. Sometimes these things still happen. But mostly now, racism has gone underground and is communicated in very subtle ways which can always be dismissed if challenged. In some cases racism is so embedded in the institution, or system, that those perpetuating it are unaware that it is happening. So we have overt racism, cleverly disguised racism and unconscious racism all happening simultaneously in the world. 

 

This is a huge subject all on it's own and not a popular one to present, I know. In the case of the Sussexes I believe that the media has attacked them with both cleverly disguised and unconscious racism. It's always deniable, but those on the receiving end know exactly what's going on. Meghan knows.  

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In for a penny, in for a pound I guess. 

 

Re the trademarking part of this discussion, Prince Charles, The Prince of Wales, got in there a while back. His company, Duchy Originals, who produce organic food,  was set up in 1990 - thirty years ago. He was smart and knew that trading on his place in the royal family would be a good move and so it proved. Mostly anyway.

 

For more info look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waitrose_Duchy_Organic

 

The British Royal family is a business, albeit one steeped in history and written into the UK and commonwealth institutions. But if you look at it objectively, it's no different to Amazon, Apple, Pfizer, General Electric, McDonalds and Mercedes-Benz. Just a business and they come and they go.  None of them have a right to exist.

 

If the Royal Family collapses, like Lehman Brothers Bank did, life would go on and it wouldn't be the end of the world. Most countries don't have  a monarchy and they get on fine.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, eqman said:

This is a huge subject all on it's own and not a popular one to present, I know. In the case of the Sussexes I believe that the media has attacked them with both cleverly disguised and unconscious racism. It's always deniable, but those on the receiving end know exactly what's going on. Meghan knows.  

 

This is actually an important point.  Racism is very difficult to explain, because most people who are not subject to it do not understand how subtle and prevalent it is.   Meghan is from Compton.  She isn't going to back down.  I really think much of this has to do with Prince Harry, and his desire to keep his family safe.  He watched his own mother eviscerated by the press.   He is not here for Act II of the same.

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I think there is a big difference between the Prince of Wales Duchy operation, and the sort of glossy and lucrative celeb activities that everyone can see Harry and Megan aspiring to. 

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5 hours ago, Morrigan said:

I think there is a big difference between the Prince of Wales Duchy operation, and the sort of glossy and lucrative celeb activities that everyone can see Harry and Megan aspiring to. 

 

I don't think there is anything wrong in playing to Meghan's strength.  She is an established actress who has long used her status to bring attention to important issues affecting women around the world.   I thought they were going to live in Canada?  This is a country where hockey players are paparazzi fodder and kings of media.  I'm not even kidding about this.  

 

I've read through various threads about this issue, and am pretty disappointed in all the misogyny within the Kate v. Meghan stupidity.  Is there some reason that people have to choose one over the other?  

 

Then I went to Instagram after reading that SussexRoyal was their official account.  I saw the cutest video of the couple walking with their baby to an appearance.  As they approached an arch, Prince Harry kept saying something like "look...you're going through an arch.  Arch...arch."  The baby squealed.  It was adorable.

 

As an American, it would be nice if y'all could live in peace.  You have something that we do not, which is probably why the press creates a great deal of nonsense to sell papers or get web traffic.   Fire the ones who keep "breaking" stories to the salivating press.   You are the country of James Bond and Sherlock Holmes.  Surely, you can sniff out the perps.   

 

I remember watching Princess Diana's interview -- the one with the heavy underliner -- and thinking that she was in quite a sad state.  Now magnify that by millions, in a world where the social media and internet forums are capable of delivering a boatload of insults to a complete royal stranger, right on their instagram or twitter doorstep.  It is inescapable.  

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TODAY'S BREAKING STORY:

 

LONDON — Senior British royals were set Monday to hash out details of Prince Harry and Meghan’s plans in an unprecedented summit triggered by the couple's shock announcement that they planned to "step back" from their traditional roles.

 

Harry and Meghan, known as the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, said in a statement posted on social media and their own new website Wednesday that they would split their time between North America and the United Kingdom as they "carve out a progressive new role within this institution."

 

“This bombshell had been dropped on the royal family and yet they still hadn't met to discuss it face to face,” NBC royal contributor Camilla Tominey said.

 

Image: Britain's Queen Elizabeth II departs from church on the Sandringham estate

 

Britain's Queen Elizabeth II leaves church on Sunday at her Sandringham estate in eastern England.Chris Radburn / Reuters

 

“I think people really couldn't relate to that, so the idea of a face-to-face meeting was urgently needed as is a solution to this problem. [The royals] don't want it to be strung out over weeks. They want it done in days,” she added.

 

The meeting will take place at Queen Elizabeth II’s Sandringham estate in the east of England. The heir to the throne, Prince Charles, will be there, after returning from Oman, where he had gone to pay his condolences after the death of Sultan Qaboos bin Said. Prince William will also be at the meeting.

 

The family will need to work out how exactly Harry, who is sixth in line to the throne, and Meghan will continue to support the queen, while also working to become “financially independent.”

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REST OF STORY:

 

The couple's decision has captivated the nation as well as its newspaper headlines, with much speculation on what prompted their announcement. On Monday, William and Harry issued a joint statement publicly denouncing an "offensive" newspaper report about their relationship.

 

"Despite clear denials, a false story ran in a U.K. newspaper today speculating about the relationship between The Duke of Sussex and The Duke of Cambridge," the statement issued by the offices for William and Harry said, according to Reuters.

 

Last year, there were rumors in the press of a rift between Harry and William, who were once very close, and in June, Harry and Meghan confirmed that they were separating from William and Kate's Royal Foundation charity to start their own initiative, Sussex Royal.

 

Harry seemed to confirm the distance between the brothers in the interview with journalist Tom Bradby in Africa when he said that he and William were on “different paths.”

 

Image: Prince Harry, his wife Meghan and Prince William on the balcony of Buckingham Palace in July 2018.

Prince Harry and his wife Meghan split off in June from the charity they ran together with Harry's brother Prince William, seen here on the balcony of Buckingham Palace in July 2018.Tolga Akmen / AFP - Getty Images file

 

Just days after returning from a six-week break from their royal responsibilities, Meghan, an American actress who appeared in the television series “Suits,” flew back to Canada where they had left their son, Archie, who was born in May. She may call into the meeting, a palace source said, and other people whom "the royals want in the room" might also attend.

 

“As the ultimate decision maker in all this and also the wisest head there with six decades on the throne, the queen is probably the best moderator of the situation,” Tominey said.

 

Despite the desire to come to a swift conclusion on the couple’s future role, there is "genuine agreement and understanding that any decisions will take time to be implemented," the palace source said.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/queen-senior-royals-set-discuss-harry-meghan-s-future-role-n1114296

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I'll be really surprised if Meghan ever comes back to the UK, even on a short visit, despite all their brave words about supporting the Queen etc.  I think she's done her last royal public engagement.   Tbh, I'm not that interested in her, I think she will be seen as a flash in the pan in royal terms.  I am interested in Harry, because we've kind of all been with him since the British public watched him walk behind his mother's coffin as a grieving 12 yr old.

There's something in psychotherapeutic jargon called "repetition compulsion" which I think can be seen in Harry's behaviour.  He picked as a partner, someone with whom he could relive his trauma involving his mother.  An alpha woman who has a very strong love/hate, push/pull relationship with the media, like Diana did, and who has a very difficult relationship with the rest of the royal family, again, as his mother did.   As a child he was unable to influence what was going on or protect Diana - but as an adult he can protect Meghan.  All his rage over the childhood events is now coming to the surface.   But as often with repetition compulsion, it doesn't end well when there is no conscious awareness.   I think this will almost certainly end in their divorce in the not too distant future. 

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11 hours ago, Morrigan said:

There's something in psychotherapeutic jargon called "repetition compulsion" which I think can be seen in Harry's behaviour.  He picked as a partner, someone with whom he could relive his trauma involving his mother.  An alpha woman who has a very strong love/hate, push/pull relationship with the media, like Diana did, and who has a very difficult relationship with the rest of the royal family, again, as his mother did.   As a child he was unable to influence what was going on or protect Diana - but as an adult he can protect Meghan.  All his rage over the childhood events is now coming to the surface.   But as often with repetition compulsion, it doesn't end well when there is no conscious awareness.   I think this will almost certainly end in their divorce in the not too distant future. 

 

Very interesting. This seems plausible and likely. 

 

If so, it means that Meghan and Harry have very different motivational drivers - Meghan's would be her treatment by the media and maybe the royal family establishment (we haven't heard anything about that part yet, but if and when she writes a book it will be interesting), whilst Harry may be motivated by Diana-related rage, even though he may not know it. At the moment their two different motivational drivers seem to be working well in harmony and they are united in the battle they've got into. They present as quite a sweet embattled couple. 

 

In the longer term, who knows?

 

 

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     Yes!! the rumors are true the unroyal couple will be moving to Canada i really should keep this to myself but we are house(palace) swapping ...Morrigan what channel does the hockey game come on BBC1 or BBC2 ?

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@Dan, Are the 'defrocked' couple coming to a town near you?

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Yes Sandy we are trading homes i will be living at Kensington Palace and they will be living on a nice quiet street in Southern Ontario i wonder what day the trash has to be put to the curb? maybe i will ring up the Queen and ask

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Lol @Dan you made oi larf!   It's Tuesday, bin collection day - Harry and Meghan don't live at Kensington Palace, not for some time now - they live at Frogmore Cottage at Windsor Castle. Here is a link to the bin collections for Windsor & Maidenhead!  https://www3.rbwm.gov.uk/info/200175/recycling_and_waste

 

Also - here is some info on your new home - very nice too!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frogmore_Cottage

laughing-happy-cat-smiley-emoticon.gif

 

Julie Burchill wrote an amusing article in The Spectator, on the demise of her girl crush on Meghan.  She described what is going on atm, many calling it "Megxit", as "The Grabdication".  https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/how-did-i-get-meghan-so-wrong/

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I really don't get all the venom against Meghan Markle.   This woman is just not going to win, because it appears that people are intent on disparaging her at every turn.  

 

She is from the hood.  She is going to be strong, and it is PHENOMENAL that a woman of color -- any woman of color -- has a career in Hollywood. This is the most racist history that I've worked in, where execs think nothing of telling black and Asian jokes all day.  I lived through it, cussing out bosses and finally quitting a dream job at a studio to volunteer to help kids in Compton -- Meghan's neighborhood -- learn how to program for the internet so their voices would not get lost in the shuffle.

 

Why is this all on her anyway?  How can the press still go down this road and not understand the racism in these sort of articles.  Have people forgotten that Prince Harry once kicked off passengers from a plane so that he and his crew can fly to some obscure part of the world?  And yet, EVERYTHING is Meghan's fault.  It all goes down that slope where it is assumed that all women of color drag their white princes away from the castle.  Hell, my own husband is white, and do you know what kind of BS I had to listen to from my his grandfather?  It is so bad that my FIL has stopped communicating with his father many times over comments made about me. 

 

Yeah, this has me triggered.  We go through enough racism and misogyny in our lifetime.  To see it played out so blatantly makes me really really angry.  (This isn't directed at anyone here.  Just at the journos.)

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41 minutes ago, Anna said:

I really don't get all the venom against Meghan Markle.   This woman is just not going to win, because it appears that people are intent on disparaging her at every turn.

 

@Anna - I totally agree that a lion's share of the venom has been heaped upon Meghan.  They give Harry no blame or credit, if you will, for being a fully developed human being, capable of making his own choices.  For all we know, striking out on their own was 90% his decision.  

 

But no, the Wicked Witch of the West has lured Prince Charming away from an idyllic royal life to create their own destiny.  What ingrates!!  

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@Anna - it is very much NOT the case that in the UK at present, people are thinking it is all Meghan's fault.  There is a great deal of criticism of Harry - just as much as of her.  The UK does not know about her Hollywood career, really - she was never high profile here.   Just because she is a woman of colour, it doesn't mean her behaviour is beyond reproach.   Many people here in the UK are disappointed with the way the royal couple have acted.    Her family is like a soap opera - nobody has behaved well at all, with the exception of her mother.  

We here in the UK feel quite protective of our 93 yr old Queen, who has served the country well and selflessly since having the crown thrust upon her unexpectedly after the abdication of her uncle and the death of her father when she was only 25.   Her heir, Charles, is now 71, an age at which most people would have been enjoying their retirement for quite a few years.   

This leaves William and Harry to shoulder the onerous burdens of royal duty.   Who could blame William and Kate for feeling a bit abandoned by Harry and Meghan, who are choosing to bail out just 20 months after getting wed?    Meghan strikes me very much as someone who does what she wants - which is fine if you are anything other than a senior member of the British royal family.  If she didn't realise what was involved, that is on her husband who should have warned her better about what it was going to be like.   I suspect he was so lovestruck that he played it down.  

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22 hours ago, Morrigan said:

Julie Burchill wrote an amusing article in The Spectator, on the demise of her girl crush on Meghan.  She described what is going on atm, many calling it "Megxit", as "The Grabdication".  https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/how-did-i-get-meghan-so-wrong/

 

I read the above article and it is, for the most part, written with humor.  Below, however, she addresses a more weighty issue:

 

"‘Harry and Meghan took four private jets in eleven days after a summer of lecturing us about climate change and refusing to show their baby to the paying public; this followed shortly after the prince’s jaunt to the Google climate change summit where he is also thought to also have taken a helicopter, as he habitually uses them to fly short distances whereas the Queen makes do with a train.  

 

Having a public figure as notoriously self-centred and bad-tempered as Elton John rush in to defend them didn’t help, but only further established that the Sussexes saw themselves as international stars rather than one nation’s public servants."

 

It occurs to me that Meghan and Harry no longer want to be "one nation's public servants."  Harry was born into that role and Meghan acquired it when  she married him.  Meghan really was a national, if not international, star -  admittedly a relatively minor one, but had the potential to become more widely acclaimed. (I loved her in the cable series "Suits.")

 

So yes, maybe Meghan did influence Harry, who was likely already dissatisfied with his world, to spend at least half his time in the world she has known - a world with freedom of choice and not "one country's public servants."

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Here is an article from Buzzfeed showing the disparity in coverage between Kate and Meghan:  Here Are 20 Headlines Comparing Meghan Markle To Kate Middleton That May Show Why She And Prince Harry Are Cutting Off Royal Reporters

 

Here is Prince William addressing the media pressure:  

 

 

There are some clear problems, and I would rather just take the couple's reasoning at face value.  There certainly is enough evidence for it. Also, they apparently moved to Victoria Island in Canada, which is probably not the place to be if you want to take advantage of your Hollywood connections.  

 

The Google Climate charge and the Queen on a train is a bit extra.  The Google Climate Conference was in Sicily.  I looked up the train route: "No, there is no direct train from London to Sicily. However, there are services departing from London St Pancras Eurostar and arriving at Palermo Notarbartolo via Paris Nord, Paris Gare De Lyon, Torino Porta Susa, Roma Termini and Palermo Centrale. The journey, including transfers, takes approximately 27h 31m."  Also, "The quickest way to get from England to Sicily is to train and fly which costs £55 - £220 and takes 6h 53m."  Personally, I wouldn't put any credibility into this conference.  But Barack Obama also attended -- via private jet.   I also looked to see the last time the Queen took a train to Sicily.  She was there long ago with Prince Philip, and their method of transportation was via yacht.  

 

Personally, I think people are fixating on the wrong royal to condemn.  But if I were Prince Andrew, I would be celebrating to the rafters.

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Challenging racism is never easy and those who do are never popular. 

 

It's really interesting how any discussion usually gets switched to some other, less painful, subject instead. And the anger generated is quite scary.

 

The Sussexes are holding the subject right now, but they won't be able to for very long because the power of opposition is immense. It's also generated a broader interest - here's an example...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/16/is-it-racism-musician-soweto-kinch-refused-entry-to-first-class-carriage

  

 

 

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11 hours ago, eqman said:

Challenging racism is never easy and those who do are never popular. 

 

It's really interesting how any discussion usually gets switched to some other, less painful, subject instead. And the anger generated is quite scary.

 

The Sussexes are holding the subject right now, but they won't be able to for very long because the power of opposition is immense. It's also generated a broader interest - here's an example...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jan/16/is-it-racism-musician-soweto-kinch-refused-entry-to-first-class-carriage

  

 

 

 

I was busy all day and finally got around to reading this article in full.  

 

That poor musician!  He should have recorded it, American style.  People here don't mess around.  Racism has been a powerful force for too long, and people aren't going to wait for the law to help them.  We know how that ends up. 

 

In any case, I am curious to see how this all plays out in the UK.  Here in the US, they no longer have the public attention because we are in the midst of a really bad sports scandal.  

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